Chinese now control the USA *What if*

[dmp1ce]

Something crossed my mind today, because I was listening to some people talk about the US debt to the Chinese. I was wondering, what if the government of the USA decided they couldn't afford to pay back the Chinese and simply sold the entire country to the Chinese? What if the Chinese were now in total control of the USA but they decided it was best to keep all the same laws for the time being? If the Chinese were in control of the USA how would that change your feelings about the government? Would you still follow all of the laws? Would you still vote? Would you still participate in the political system?

[true.]

The Chinese are in control of the US.

He who controls the purse, controls the powerrrr........

I do think that this whole situation, with so much foreign ownership of the US, will lead to the next large scale war (WWIII) when shit goes south. And notice I said when, not if.

[dmp1ce]

I hope it doesn't happen, but what are you going to do when WWIII starts?

[true.]

Relocate to "Galt's Gulch."

In all seriousness, this is a good question. At this point I don't know. Obviously, try to get out of harms way. This will be hard to do with marshal law imposed. I don't know any survival skills so I wouldn't make it alone in the wilderness for that long. Not sure what wilderness I could even get to, haha. Maybe the Smokey Mountains; Dolly Parton and I will survive. I could live off her breast milk for at least a couple months.

An "A, B, or C Contingency Plan" should be formulated.

You?

[dmp1ce]

I never thought that Dolly Parton was the answer to WWIII but maybe you are right.

I would "run, hide". Well, I would hide first as to avoid war and if war came looking for me then I'd go somewhere else. Some other country maybe, maybe someone place out in the middle of no where like you are talking about. I would rather live in a city if possible, even if it has to be in another country that I am not used to.

[true.]

But it would be difficult to hide in a city, espcially a crowded one. Big brother would be everywhere and citys are more apt to be targeted by attckers. You'd definately want to get away from the coast.

You also have to consider how to get to these cities. That cost money and a lot of it might have to be under the table, cash (if you're going out of the country). This would also include "knowing people" which I don't know to many of those type of people.

There are numerous small communities in South America that might work. Also a lot of, little, off the radar towns in the celtic regions of Europe that might stay out of any conflicts. Though, I feel it will be hard for anyone to stay out of the next WW.

[dmp1ce]

Well, I personally DON'T think WWIII is going to happen. Or that we are kind of experiencing a WWIII now with Vietnam, Korea, Cold War, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all of these mini wars. Of course, I don't know the future. If there ever was something huge like a war actually in North America I think it is best to have very liquid assets and be armed. So, have gold and silver coins (or cash) on hand and be armed with a pistol or rifle. That should give you everything you need to get where you want, and I agree knowing people is a huge advantage.

[true.]

Well, I have the pistol but I need to find some gold (free)! Where da gold at!

I only see WWIII happening if we piss China off and sometimes I think that is the goal of the boys in DC.

[dmp1ce]

I have heard they are trying to pick a fight with Pakistan and Russia more often than not. Maybe North Korea too. China is too big.

[indeed.]

Japan will be sending playstations.

[Pete]

This happens every so often, a foreign country owns a portion of our debt and every1 goes running for the hills. This happened like 10-20 years ago with the surge of the Japanese market and sure, they're doing very well in the global picture but we're not seeing articles everywhere about how Japan is going to be the end of us. China's sort of the same deal; they still rely heavily on our exporting them our goods. (This trend is perpetual for any dominant country like Britain in the 19th century to Germany) Even if we do owe them a huge debt, we also have contingency plans in place like the World Bank.

This doesn't mean that the U.S. won't one day find that it is no longer a world super power but even the idea of a superpower was only just born out of the cold war. In terms of dominance, it comes down to resources. Whereas once it was "who has more coal?" then to "who can produce the most cotton?" to "who has the most oil?" now, it's "who can play the world market the best?" and we have medical, technological, military advantages. Keep in mind the U.S. has never once refused the military funding requests which amounts to trillions of dollars.

As for WWIII, it could very well happen but the frontier will never be America. If any place, it will be on the Chinese border but communism isn't even a competing ideology especially after the cold war. Not only must the isolationist factor be considered but also the money factor. What's that saying? One drop of blood is worth a pound of gold? With capitalism reaching greater and greater heights of importance, global-scale war becomes less and less likely; someone's always gonna want to keep making money. Of course, I'm not saying companies like Blackwater won't lobby for war but global conflict cannot occur when balance of power is reinforced by fiscal interests. In terms of geography, what international wars were ever fought on U.S. soil? None unless you count those silly Mexican one-day wars. More likely, there will come a point of conflict and everyone will point there nukes at everyone else. Whether or not all of them are launched or a peaceful agreement is reached can only be seen when the time comes.

tl;dr: don't buy into t.v. sensationalism, read less conservative media (surprisingly the economist is not so bad) and if there's war, there is no running: we'll all die or everyone will live.

[kabam]

WE'RE TAKING OVER THE WORLD!

[true.]

This happens every so often, a foreign country owns a portion of our debt and every1 goes running for the hills. This happened like 10-20 years ago with the surge of the Japanese market and sure, they're doing very well in the global picture but we're not seeing articles everywhere about how Japan is going to be the end of us. China's sort of the same deal; they still rely heavily on our exporting them our goods. (This trend is perpetual for any dominant country like Britain in the 19th century to Germany) Even if we do owe them a huge debt, we also have contingency plans in place like the World Bank.

From my understanding, foreign dept ownership in the period you are speaking of was around 14% to 18%. We are now at about 45%. That's quite a difference. In regards to Japan, we are not nearly as hostile to Japan (ever since the whole WW2 thing) as we are to China. This presents quite a violitile sitaution if things were to go south. China does rely heavily on exports but I don't buy that they will crumble without our consumerism. I do beleive their economy will have to shift, but because they are producers, it can shift more effectively than a country of consumers, such as ours. This was illistrated well by Peter Schiff but simply put, the country of producers can also be a country of consumers. The Chinese could focus less on producing for the US and more on producing for themselves. The US, on the other hand, would be in a pickle. And I think we can all agree the "World Bank" is a joke.

This doesn't mean that the U.S. won't one day find that it is no longer a world super power but even the idea of a superpower was only just born out of the cold war. In terms of dominance, it comes down to resources. Whereas once it was "who has more coal?" then to "who can produce the most cotton?" to "who has the most oil?" now, it's "who can play the world market the best?" and we have medical, technological, military advantages. Keep in mind the U.S. has never once refused the military funding requests which amounts to trillions of dollars.

Not sure I agree on your last statement. We are starting to lag behind quite a bit in the medical, technological, and educational areas.

As for WWIII, it could very well happen but the frontier will never be America. If any place, it will be on the Chinese border but communism isn't even a competing ideology especially after the cold war. Not only must the isolationist factor be considered but also the money factor. What's that saying? One drop of blood is worth a pound of gold? With capitalism reaching greater and greater heights of importance, global-scale war becomes less and less likely; someone's always gonna want to keep making money. Of course, I'm not saying companies like Blackwater won't lobby for war but global conflict cannot occur when balance of power is reinforced by fiscal interests. In terms of geography, what international wars were ever fought on U.S. soil? None unless you count those silly Mexican one-day wars. More likely, there will come a point of conflict and everyone will point there nukes at everyone else. Whether or not all of them are launched or a peaceful agreement is reached can only be seen when the time comes.

I agree, very unlikely and we would probably detroy ourselves before allowing someone to detroy us. But, you have to think that Japan bombing us on our soil was very unlikely as well. China/India have a shit ton of people and a lot more of them would be willing to fight than here in the US. Not to mention, China is a producing nation. I would hate to see them go into a war footing. Their factorys would be rolling out 100 tanks to our 1.

tl;dr: don't buy into t.v. sensationalism, read less conservative media (surprisingly the economist is not so bad) and if there's war, there is no running: we'll all die or everyone will live.

Media sensationalizes a lot of things, but I have never really heard them discuss much about foreign debt ownership, deficit, etc. When they do, they are typically talking out their ass. We’ve heard a little bit lately due to Obama announcing the spending freezes. I found that a little bit comical. Point is, I don’t think you have to worry about anyone here falling into what the media says.

[Pete]

You bring up some good points true but I feel like you might be omitting some big pieces of information. While you're correct that foreign debt ownership is much higher than it was in the inflation of the Japanese bubble, there are two factors concerned with debt that are invisible in your statement. The first is that total foreign debt is higher meaning there exists more debt which is doled out to foreign nations and other institutions holding US debt; the trend that China holds more foreign debt than ever is a result of pure numbers as well as a testament to the ever-globalized world. The second dimension that goes unnoticed is the fact that true debt, meaning a nation's actual capacity to repay their losses is measured on a scale to GDP. When considering more factors than total debt, the GDP scales our debt into a not-so-extreme prospect which falls within a historical boundary of recoverable. As for the World Bank, it may be inefficient and seemingly useless but as a contingency it is still absolutely viable in works with the redistribution of debt holders.

In terms of medical and technological advancement, all I have to say is open up a journal of Nature or Science and 99% of the studies in medical journals like AHA or JCA, etc. are performed in the US. Not to mention leading pharmaceutical companies like Merck (that is, US-based medicinal companies) still lead in the market. Technologically, the US is still the leading exporter of arms. I think while it may be easy to doubt the US as it seems prone to an economic collapse similar to the depression, if you look carefully, you'll find that the US is still the most dominant global power.

China may own our debt but that is more of a static relationship than it appears. I mean, the US is still selling billions of dollars of weapons to Taiwan, much to the dismay of China but there's nothing they can really do about it. Imports and Exports is the easy understanding of a global economy but a nation's success is predicated on so many more factors than these. Also, media sensationalism occurs in all forms be it TV, radio, magazines, etc. It's not always about being aware of the sensationalism so much as it is consulting various global resources to glean the true information.